One of the big divides between “red pill” / pick up communities and the mainstream is about age.
Which age of a girl is appropriate for a guy to date, and which isn’t?
A lot of people, older women of course, but even other middle aged guys with daughters… find the impulse to date “low” (10+ years younger) creepy.
Well, as you might guess my perspective on it is a bit nuanced… because there are a lot of different factors at play.
But by the end of this article I promise you’ll have a handle on it.
Let’s dive in…
Biology vs Psychology
We aren’t here to be politically correct, so let’s just be honest: men are attracted to young women… not only because young women are (generally) more beautiful, but because youth corresponds to fertility.
I know people struggle acknowledging this today because it hurts the feelings of women who have gotten older. But this is the male biological impulse — there is NO man on the planet who doesn’t feel it, just like there is no woman on the planet who doesn’t feel her biological impulse of hypergamy (only dating men who are across or above them in value).
When a girl looks very young, a well-adjusted guy will get negative crosswinds from his mind because she looks too much like a child… but if a girl has gone through puberty, physiologically the guy is still going to be attracted. Nature has said she is “ready” to be with a man.
And yet… there is a reason we have “age of consent” and a legal age for women at 18, vs say 15.
A developed body does not equal a developed mind.
Teenage girls are immature and don’t know anything about the world. Thus they are VERY open to being manipulated by people who are older. They are naive, and so while they might have the body of a woman… their mind is very much still a little girl.
Which is why they are protected by society from men (and women) who would use that innocence to their advantage.
But here’s the thing… psychology is a sliding scale. Socially we have decided 18 is an adult, but it’s obviously not that a girl’s mind suddenly shifts into “mature mode” when the birthday strikes.
It is a gradual development that occurs over a lifetime. The age is a legal compromise with the variance in nature.
Which is why, while a 48 year old can legally sleep with an 18 year old… society viscerally feels uncomfortable when it happens.
It feels like the 48 year old is taking advantage of the 18 year old… because there isn’t, or at least SHOULDN’T be a psychological reason for him to be drawn to her.
She is in a completely different stage of life. She is old enough to be his daughter… even his granddaughter.
Which begs the question:
How can he relate to her?
Why Older Men Like Dating Younger Women
Well, perhaps he can’t… we’ll talk about that in a bit.
But let’s first go through the prime reasons why older men like younger girls:
- More beautiful and fertile.
- The subset that are open to older men are easier to game (if the guys can get past their own mental hangups)
- Less baggage / less demanding
- More feminine and open to his leadership
We already covered a) in the first section, it’s pretty self-explanatory anyway, so let’s go through the others.
Younger women, despite having more “biological value” are paradoxically easier to game… that is, if an older guy can get past his own hangups about dating such a girl.
The reason has to do with her psychological development and experience.
Younger women are generally at a lower level of consciousness, and respond to men purely via biological triggers. Teasing, negs, displays of value, desire from other women… while these things affect all women, they really persuade younger ones.
(Red pill theory, for all its flaws, applies to is the vast majority of high school and even college girls)
Moreover these girls, with few to no burdens on them, are very feminine and tend to be open to male leadership. Basic femininity is very childlike, playful, impulsive… and most 20 year old girls have this in abundance.
In contrast, older women split in two directions.
They either mature and while remaining giving, demand more (in a good way) from guys… forcing them to be stronger, more developed, more authentic. They know players, they know what they themselves want… and have higher discernment of men and standards.
Or, they remain immature but accumulate more baggage from years of mistakes… which also makes them more demanding, but in a bad way… because these demands stem from cognitive dissonance.
These women can see they don’t attract men in the same way as they used to, and feel worse about themselves… so they need more external validation… and expect the man to provide it.
Paradoxically, these women are LESS giving and feminine despite their higher needs and lower aesthetic “market value.” Indeed, these women are why many older men prefer NOT to date women their own age — more work, less rewards.
So Why Not Date A Younger Girl?
Well, if your focus is on biology, you’ve got no reason not to. Young girls win across all of those categories.
However if you are looking for an alchemical relationship… a relationship where you can grow as a man, and connect deeply with a woman on an intellectual, emotional, psychological, even spiritual level…
You are going to struggle if you are older and date a girl who is too young.
And I’ll explain why.
Young women don’t know themselves well enough to know and challenge you. Thus dating younger women, while hard in some senses (there are more male competitors you must fend off), in other ways it’s playing the game on “easy.”
These women are simple and silly. Feminine, no doubt, but unable to challenge your bullshit on a core level.
Now, are all like this?
Of course not. And not all older women are mature enough to help you grow.
As a reader mentioned on this topic to me recently:
Here is what I have learned in 11 years post-marriage, dating women from 20 years younger (banging a few younger than that) to 5 years older: age has very little to do with maturity. One of the most mature women I have dated is 20 years younger and is my favorite ex-gf. She had a baby at 19 and had to grow up fast. She is now a highly respected nurse whose son is a college freshman on an athletic scholarship–and a fine young man. On the other hand, I dated a woman my age in my mid 40s. She had a trust fund and had made money on her own on Wall Street. She used to have actual temper tantrums (i.e., stomping her feet and shouting, “No!” when I wouldn’t do what she wanted).
Obviously, motherhood causes most women to mature. A 37 year old with 2 kids is generally going to be more mature than a childless 47 year old.
——
He’s 100% right about how age guarantees nothing… however, this reader is in his mid-50s, and the young girl he was referring to was not 19 when he dated her. She was at least a decade older.
Motherhood certainly speeds things along — it is a rite of passage for women. But a lot also changes to people in their late 20s.
Psychological Integration
Many of you know I find MBTI (Myers-Briggs Personality Test) a useful tool for understanding people.
Some have their quibbles. That’s fine. You can choose to use in the system or not. What I am about to say applies regardless.
Unless you are extremely psychologically stunted, as you progress through your 20s and 30s your personality will begin to change.
Or better said, evolve.
In MBTI terms, you have two primary functions — a judging function (feeling/thinking) and a perceiving one (intuition/sensing). These two main functions make up the core of your personality.
However, as you move through your 20s a third function — known as the child (or tertiary) begins to emerge.
This is an additional judging or perceiving function depending on your personality type.
(There is also a 4th function, the inferior that can emerge even later)
If you want to learn more about the specifics of this, you can peruse this site. It gives solid descriptions (there is a ton of junk out there, be careful).
Point is… this “tertiary emergence” is almost universal and profoundly affects how you will show up to other people.
Again, whether you want to think about it in MBTI terms doesn’t matter. You will start to become more multidimensional as you age.
Thinkers will become more interested in feelings. Those who cared about concrete things or “coloring between the lines” will start to think more abstractly or do more exploring.
In other words… the girl in her early 20s or late teens you considered dating is likely going to change a lot over the coming decade.
Which is why my good friend and MBTI savant, Adam, encourages patience when picking someone to settle down with. Because you really don’t know someone until their “tertiary” kicks into gear.
Now, are some younger girls more mature for their age? No doubt. Though remember, the health of a personality is different from its development… they’re both variables to take into consideration.
But generally speaking you’re not dealing with a fully mature woman until she’s in her late 20s, earliest.
Moreover… there is something to be said for being in the same stage of life.
Dating a college girl when you are a Vice-President at a financial firm on Wall Street… what do you have in common with her? You should NOT be able to relate to this girl unless there is something very stunted within in you.
Note this is not about having different jobs, but different priorities.
No… while her fantasy appeal is understandable, this girl is more of an escape from the burdens of a life that perhaps you are questioning (mid-life crisis), than someone you are actually compatible with.
To date her, you are going psychologically BACKWARDS.
Best case scenario, you play the role of father / mentor… except you guys fuck. And given the nature of these dynamics, expect this to only be temporary. Many young women see such men as stepping stones in their journey, not end goals. Despite manosphere larping most older men dating younger women get “cucked” by those women within a few years.
So given these contrasting biological and psychological variables, what is the way forward as a man? What’s the best age of a woman you should date?
The Ideal Heuristic For Dating: Half + 7
I believe I heard this formula first when I was in my early 20s. And while it was one of those things guys joke to each other about, even years later it somehow remains robust.
You take your age, divide it in half, and add 7. And that’s the end of the range of women you “should” date.
It means that a 60 year old would be able to date a 37 year old.
A 50 year old would be able to date a 32 year old.
A 40 year old would be able to date as young as 27.
A 30 year old, 22.
A 20 year old, 17.
Etc, etc.
It scales nicely with the rapid progression of maturity that occurs in early years, that gradually levels off as people mature.
Note that I think rules are meant to be broken. If you have an exception, if your relationship with a woman feels right… if you are really operating with self-awareness about your intentions… go for it.
But “Half + 7” gives a lot of balance to the biological age of a woman and her psychological development.
As for the upper end? Without getting involved in age-scaling, I’d recommend guys not date women more than 2… certainly 5 years older than them.
Not only do biological changes affect women much more profoundly and rapidly than men, but due to hypergamy… the older a woman you date, the more likely she is going to take on a role of “mother” to you vs girlfriend. You will have a hard time leading in this relationship.
So if you are under 40 and looking for a long-term partner, avoid her being more than two years older than you (ideally less).
Exceptions always exist, but structural pressures never disappear.
Conclusions: Choosing The Right Woman
But while there are real considerations when it comes to a woman’s age for biological, family planning purposes, etc… of equal if not greater consideration is how age effects the happiness in the relationship.
Which is why, as always, you must consider age in the contexts of numerous other variables.
Many young women are too immature for you to safely commit to emotionally. And many older women are too damaged to be worth your time.
My advice to you?
If you are young, look carefully for a good woman around your age who you can grow with.
Many of the most successful couples I know did this… they rode the wave of cognitive development together. They changed, they grew… but they did so as a unit, shaping and improving each other in turn.
And because of all these shared transformations they experienced, their roots were deeper… so deep, they became almost impossible to uproot.
A good thing, if you can get it.
But I know for many of you, this will be water under the bridge. You’re in your 30s or beyond… that ship has sailed.
So what to do?
My recommendation is to aim for a woman no younger than mid-late 20s.
And here is why:
You want a woman who is still relatively in your stage of life, or has already completed some of the crucial, formative early years… so you can relate to each other.
Moreover women who take care of themselves are still very beautiful at this point… and have many years of fertility ahead of them.
But they are also becoming women, not girls. They have begun to undergo cognitive development.
It’s a balance between biological youth and psychological maturity.
But you must also choose very carefully, nonetheless. Because it’s at this point that women diverge.
You will begin to see which women are emotionally mature and honest with themselves… and which ones are closing themselves off into bitterness and entitlement.
In other words, some will be excellent fits… others hopeless ones.
I’ll close this off with a story.
One of my clients, early into us working together, met a girl his age — early 30s.
The girl had been in a relationship for 11 years. Divorced a year ago.
To a lot of guys who larp on the internet, on paper she was “damaged goods” or “end of shelf life.”
Reality though is that this woman had put in a LOT of personal work both before and after her divorce.
She took care of herself physically, but more than that… she was confident and self-aware.
An incredible fit for my client, who had gone through similar introspection. It was a pleasure to help the two of them get together and build and healthy, secure relationship.
Point is: this is a woman whose personality had been seasoned with age.
It had become more balanced, more feminine, more confident.
And yet, many women her age learn the opposite lessons from their mistakes. They become MORE demanding and less feminine.
So in short, find someone to grow with… or find someone who has matured into positivity and self-love on their own.
And avoid like the plague those who haven’t.
Your happiness is directly correlated to your personality development.
It’s “finding the real you” beneath all the bullshit accumulated over the years.
It’s improving your relationship with yourself.
Which matters not only for your day-to-day, but your love life.
Because unless your relationship with yourself is good… it’ll never be good with others.
Which is why I do the work that I do.
Because while tactics and techniques matter with women…
Let’s be real.
These things are surface level.
The REAL shifts with women happen when YOU shift.
When your mindset changes… when your confidence explodes.
And the good news is I know exactly how to make these shifts in your mind.
Apply here to be my next success story.
– Pat
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