Last email I made the following aside about promiscuous girls:
“I will contend that a woman who has truly processed her mistakes and takes full responsibility for them has a solid chance of getting a guy — because she will have the wisdom that comes from exploring her shadow. The problem of course is most women in this category have not done this — and struggle to “see the big deal” or be fully honest about their behavior. This is the main issue with “reformed sluts” but I digress.”
So allow me to not-digress and go more into this. Because it’s a topic that has rarely been explored.
Is it really possible to “save a ho?”
The answer is… it depends. There are a couple variables. Let’s explore a few different contexts:
Ho #1: “That Was The Old Me”
These girls are the ones the red pill commonly discusses, and are by and large the ones you want to avoid. These women have NO remorse about their past, except in the sense that they realize it may be a liability for their future relationships.
These women lie or diminish exactly what happened to them. For instance you might know they were a party girl… but you don’t know just how “hard they partied.”
On the extreme, these women are the ones who had gang-bangs in college or have sex videos of themselves out there.
The average girl in this archetype, however, has just slept around a lot and usually dated emotionally unavailable “asshole” guys — or at least had some fun with them in between relationships. This is your classic “alpha fucks, beta bucks” girl who only stops casual hook ups when it’s time to get serious and “adult.”
The problem with dating these women is simple: they are unconscious about their own motivations, and are romantically opportunistic. These women haven’t changed — they have are just playing a different role for a different time and environment. Which is why after a few years married with kids, with those boxes checked, she’s liable to return to her roots and have an affair.
Ho #2: “This Is Just How I Am”
These girls are different from the first type in the sense that they’re not in denial of their past. They know they are a ho, and they don’t really try to hide it.
You might think guys would be disinterested in these women as a result of their overt promiscuity. But that’s not how men’s minds work, unfortunately.
Girls in this category tend to not only be physically attractive, but have charisma and personality. They’re seductive, and put men at ease. They KNOW they’re fucked up but they engage in the self-destructive behavior anyway. They can’t help it, even though they might want to.
It’s girls like these who drive men crazy.
Guys often want to save these girls. The sex is great, they’re hot, and they’re fun and ease to spend time with.
The problem of course with these girls is that they cheat. Or rather, that they struggle with commitment altogether.
These women are fickle emotionally. They may genuinely love you — but they have enormous intimacy issues (often due to past sexual abuse).
To “save” a woman like this you need to help her to heal. Which in this context is calling out her bullshit, with love. You also need to accept that her promiscuity is a result of her pain, and to not take it personally.
Can you really do this? That seriously depends on you and your resolve.
Some men can see these women for who they are at their core, and work with the infidelity — offering patience and compassion yet blunt honesty about her behavior. Is this sluttiness actually serving her? Is she happy doing this? Where does the impulse come from? Boundaries are necessary to succeed here, but so is unconditional love. You may have to endure a lot of abuse before her fever breaks.
Not so appealing, I understand. But there is another way: you can join her. You can not only accept but amplify the dark sexual energy. Guys who take this path don’t care if she sleeps around, so long as they are in it together or have some element of inclusion (this ranges from “pimping” to “cucking”). These people tend to move towards open-relationships, swinging and the like.
Many of you reading may find the prospect of dating such a girl to be daunting. Why would anyone take the plunge?
The reason is simple: if you can get past her being a slut, the relationship is otherwise good. Yes it is one very big barrier, but some men can indeed get past it.
I don’t recommend but I acknowledge these relationships can work. There is an intimacy and acceptance among the sexual shame those on the outside cannot fully understand.
Ho #3: “I Did It And Don’t Miss It”
This last type of “ho” is the most rare. And the one you actually might be willing to consider.
These girls are the ones who have actually done work on themselves. They have reached a point of consciousness where they understand the destructiveness of their past behavior. And they have moved on from it.
This is your “reformed ho” so-to-speak. Many guys are understandably very skeptical such women exist. “Once a ho, always a ho.” This is generally true — see the first example given in this email — but there are exceptions.
These women have genuinely had a change of heart. Sometimes it’s a religious conversion (although again — see example #1), sometimes it’s simply a more secular understanding that they weren’t happy with the way their life was heading. And so they decided to turn away from their old path and heal.
The important thing to understand about these women is that these conversions don’t happen overnight. If you are ever dating a woman who is extremely sexual and then tells you abruptly she is “trying to be a good christian and am celibate now” — run. These women are succubi; they’re manipulating you. There is another guy they are en-route to fucking on the side.
Women who genuinely make a change in their sexual behavior may have some ups and downs — they may even have a relapse on their journey. But fundamentally they stop hooking up and take some time away from dating all together. This is many months and realistically years, not weeks.
This is a healing process for them, but it is also a journey into the underworld. They have to come to terms with their own trauma and pain. They need to learn to deal with themselves and their needs without using a man to distract themselves.
Why choose such a woman over a standard good girl who never got herself into trouble? You might not. But the reason to consider these girls are two fold:
- There simply aren’t a ton of girls who haven’t gotten themselves into at least some trouble these days. You may not like this practical consideration, but before you cast stones ask yourself how clean your own journey has been.
- These women possess greater psychological development and self-awareness than an idealistic, inexperienced “good girl.” They are honest with themselves, and so they can be honest with you. But since they have a connection to their sexual impulse, sex with these women is good and can be alchemized in a healthy way.
You may think I’m suggesting these women are the ones to pick. But my professional opinion isn’t that these women are better than these “good girls.”
It’s simply that these women are not risks to date and if all goes well marry. All the dark, devastating scenarios you hear from guys in the red pill come from the girl in first and second bucket, not this one.
The main thing you will have to get over is your ego, and whether you can accept her past mileage. This is a grey area and depends on your own threshold. Obviously a “ho” who slept with 10 guys is a different ask than one who slept with 50. Note that if this woman is the real deal, she will be transparent with you.
The big question of course is how to tell if she is lying.
Honestly?
It’s tough if you don’t have experience with such women… especially if you haven’t done a huge amount of inner work yourself.
Which is why you might want to consider working with me.
Because I can tell you exactly what kind of woman you are dealing with. And will tell you truth, no matter how it makes you feel.
Apply here: www.patstedman.com/application
– Pat
